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shrink постоялец
в ответ delomann 13.08.03 10:47
└Историю евреев в заподной
европе можно проследить
(как по еврейским, так и
по нееврейским источникам)
начиная самое позжее с
Карла великого.
Как же быть - ведь это
Ашкеназим и Сефарды?⌠
Ну и что это доказывает? А то, что до заката Хазарии в Германии ни о каких евреях даже не упоминалось. Историк Тацитус в своей книге "Германия" о евреях даже не упоминает. А вот с распадом Хазарии началась массовая иммиграция с востока, и это подтверждается историческими документами.
----
Karl I., "der Große"
Name bedeutet: der Tüchtige (althochdt.)
Kaiser des Frankenreiches
* 2. April 742 (?)
+ 814 in Aachen
----
One of the most devastating defeats came in 965, when Rus Prince Svyatoslav conquered the Khazar fortress of Sarkel. It is believed that he conquered Itil two years later, after which he campaigned in the Balkans. Despite the loss of their nation, the Khazar people did not disappear. Some of them migrated westward into Hungary, Romania, and Poland, mixing with other Jewish communities.
http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-history.html
"In the same period there began an influx of Chazar Jews from the East. At first this was essentially a trade immigration, but towards the end of the 10th century, after the fall of the Chazar state, it assumed larger proportions..."
- Kazimierz and Maria Piechotka, in Wooden Synagogues (Warsaw: Arkady, 1959; originally appeared in a Polish-language edition), English edition, page 9.
---
"All of the Khazars are Jews. But they have been Judaized recently." - Ibn al-Faqih, a 10th century author
"One of the Jews undertook the conversion of the Khazars, who are composed of many peoples, and they were converted by him and joined his religion. This happened recently in the days of the Abbasids.... └- Abd al-Jabbar ibn Muhammad al-Hamdani, in his early 11th century work The Establishment of Proofs for the Prophethood of Our Master Muhammad
"The king and his vizier travelled to the deserted mountains on the seashore, and arrived one night at the cave in which some Jews used to celebrate the Sabbath. They disclosed their identity to them, embraced their religion, were circumcized in the cave, and then returned to their country, eager to learn the Jewish law. They kept their conversion secret, however, until they found an opportunity of disclosing the fact gradually to a few of their special friends. When the number had increased, they made the affair public, and induced the rest of the Khazars to embrace the Jewish faith." - The Kuzari: The Book of Proof and Argument in Defense of the Despised Faith, a philosophical work composed in the 12th century by the Sephardic writer Yehuda HaLevi
"It is certain that Khazar Jews lived in Phanagoria (Tmutorokan), since over sixty tombstones bearing Jewish symbols (such as seven-branched menorahs, shofars, and lulavs) on one side and Turkic tribe symbols (tamgas) on the other side were found on the Taman peninsula. Many of these tombstones date from the eighth or ninth century. Khazarian tombstones on the Crimean peninsula also depict the shofar, menorah, and staff of Aaron, as well as Turkic tribe symbols... The artifacts from Taman and Crimea are extremely significant since their tamgas show that these Jews were ethnic Turks." - Kevin Alan Brook, in The Jews of Khazaria (Jason Aronson, 1999), page 142
"Russian archeologists reexamining finds excavated from Khazar sites in the area of the Don River in southern Russia recently discovered an ancient vessel inscribed with the word "Israel" in Hebrew lettering. The broken fragments of the vessel, originally unearthed in the 60s, were only recently put together. The result is the firmest verification yet of historical sources that point to the mass conversion to Judaism of the Khazar empire in 740 C.E." - Ehud Ya'ari, "Archaeological Finds Add Weight to Claim that Khazars Converted to Judaism." The Jerusalem Report (June 21, 1999), page 8.
http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html
На сайте Khazaria.com можно найти аргументы за и контра.
Мне представляется теория о хазарском происхождении восточных евреев более вероятной. То, что Хазары были в основном тюрками (татарами), доказывается историческими документами и археологическими раскопками. В Хазарии проживали и семиты (в основном священники).
Так же обстояло дело и с другими тюркскими народами. У казахов или узбеков религиозная прослойка так же имеет семитское (арабское) происхождение (род миссионеров), но потомки этих миссионеров считают себя узбеками, казахами итд.
Как и у хазар, у казахов или узбеков все исторические документы написаны не на разговорном языке, а на языке книги (арабском у узбеков, и иврит у хазар). Простой тюркский люд никогда не говорил на арабском или иврите - это был удел священников.
европе можно проследить
(как по еврейским, так и
по нееврейским источникам)
начиная самое позжее с
Карла великого.
Как же быть - ведь это
Ашкеназим и Сефарды?⌠
Ну и что это доказывает? А то, что до заката Хазарии в Германии ни о каких евреях даже не упоминалось. Историк Тацитус в своей книге "Германия" о евреях даже не упоминает. А вот с распадом Хазарии началась массовая иммиграция с востока, и это подтверждается историческими документами.
----
Karl I., "der Große"
Name bedeutet: der Tüchtige (althochdt.)
Kaiser des Frankenreiches
* 2. April 742 (?)
+ 814 in Aachen
----
One of the most devastating defeats came in 965, when Rus Prince Svyatoslav conquered the Khazar fortress of Sarkel. It is believed that he conquered Itil two years later, after which he campaigned in the Balkans. Despite the loss of their nation, the Khazar people did not disappear. Some of them migrated westward into Hungary, Romania, and Poland, mixing with other Jewish communities.
http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-history.html
"In the same period there began an influx of Chazar Jews from the East. At first this was essentially a trade immigration, but towards the end of the 10th century, after the fall of the Chazar state, it assumed larger proportions..."
- Kazimierz and Maria Piechotka, in Wooden Synagogues (Warsaw: Arkady, 1959; originally appeared in a Polish-language edition), English edition, page 9.
---
"All of the Khazars are Jews. But they have been Judaized recently." - Ibn al-Faqih, a 10th century author
"One of the Jews undertook the conversion of the Khazars, who are composed of many peoples, and they were converted by him and joined his religion. This happened recently in the days of the Abbasids.... └- Abd al-Jabbar ibn Muhammad al-Hamdani, in his early 11th century work The Establishment of Proofs for the Prophethood of Our Master Muhammad
"The king and his vizier travelled to the deserted mountains on the seashore, and arrived one night at the cave in which some Jews used to celebrate the Sabbath. They disclosed their identity to them, embraced their religion, were circumcized in the cave, and then returned to their country, eager to learn the Jewish law. They kept their conversion secret, however, until they found an opportunity of disclosing the fact gradually to a few of their special friends. When the number had increased, they made the affair public, and induced the rest of the Khazars to embrace the Jewish faith." - The Kuzari: The Book of Proof and Argument in Defense of the Despised Faith, a philosophical work composed in the 12th century by the Sephardic writer Yehuda HaLevi
"It is certain that Khazar Jews lived in Phanagoria (Tmutorokan), since over sixty tombstones bearing Jewish symbols (such as seven-branched menorahs, shofars, and lulavs) on one side and Turkic tribe symbols (tamgas) on the other side were found on the Taman peninsula. Many of these tombstones date from the eighth or ninth century. Khazarian tombstones on the Crimean peninsula also depict the shofar, menorah, and staff of Aaron, as well as Turkic tribe symbols... The artifacts from Taman and Crimea are extremely significant since their tamgas show that these Jews were ethnic Turks." - Kevin Alan Brook, in The Jews of Khazaria (Jason Aronson, 1999), page 142
"Russian archeologists reexamining finds excavated from Khazar sites in the area of the Don River in southern Russia recently discovered an ancient vessel inscribed with the word "Israel" in Hebrew lettering. The broken fragments of the vessel, originally unearthed in the 60s, were only recently put together. The result is the firmest verification yet of historical sources that point to the mass conversion to Judaism of the Khazar empire in 740 C.E." - Ehud Ya'ari, "Archaeological Finds Add Weight to Claim that Khazars Converted to Judaism." The Jerusalem Report (June 21, 1999), page 8.
http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html
На сайте Khazaria.com можно найти аргументы за и контра.
Мне представляется теория о хазарском происхождении восточных евреев более вероятной. То, что Хазары были в основном тюрками (татарами), доказывается историческими документами и археологическими раскопками. В Хазарии проживали и семиты (в основном священники).
Так же обстояло дело и с другими тюркскими народами. У казахов или узбеков религиозная прослойка так же имеет семитское (арабское) происхождение (род миссионеров), но потомки этих миссионеров считают себя узбеками, казахами итд.
Как и у хазар, у казахов или узбеков все исторические документы написаны не на разговорном языке, а на языке книги (арабском у узбеков, и иврит у хазар). Простой тюркский люд никогда не говорил на арабском или иврите - это был удел священников.